Game Features Changes - Crafting System

[xxdvinexx]

post

WARNING: Extremely Long WALL OF TEXT, you asked for how and whys here you go! Nothing is a Flame here, all intended to be Constructive criticism.

Ok so here goes nothing for the 1000th time:

-Crafting: This system is falling apart we see it, events like these shouldn't break the crafting system if it were balanced.
HOW: How do we make it balanced and more useful?
We make critting perfect chance higher. Wait so basicly now you want everything easy? No not really, the thing is that to get 1 crit if you're a normal player and not cheating you need per average 30 attempts, more or less.
I'm not talking aout those hacking crafters *and yes it's a hack one player bought an unban ticket making public 1 VERSION of it to the GMs in the past but still a LOT of players use other methods * who just get in and u see em craft 4 or 5 perfects in 1 hour...every time...Once ok luck...twice hmm'k * u see where I'm getting at, and don't tell me it's jus luck, the hack exists, it's still out there just like there's still variants of the one hit hack that hasn't been fixed e.g.: go in tg late night and watch getting 1 hit every once in a while in bm+aura*
WHY: Cause if you make critting easier it pays off to actually craft, it balances out having to buy EXPENSIVE materials for many tries, and also when events like these come out you know that even if you fail em here you always have a chance to get em in game if you help eachother out through crafting. In any other game you play crafting is easier than here...mats might be more expensive still you dont try 40 times and get maybe 1 perfect * WITH WRONG AMP...i mean...srsly? wrnog amp??? will get to this later *.


-Drop rates/Quality of Drops:
WHY:I and many players that I know have been playing this game for a very long time, some since beta days, and we know how luck works on drop rate, and quality rate...A person can farm 100 or even 200 times ft1 and drop only crap, and a newb, or more sometimes in prty, can drop eox+8.
Now I know most of the people are touchy when it comes to this subjects objections are made to: yea but this way you want everything to be easy? everyone will be super geared fast and then what happends? Where's the fun in that?
The problem is, that in ANY MMORPG, if you farm 1 to 2 years you will get end game if you're dedicated.
Cabal is the only game i found online that if you farm for even 3 years, you might get a couple of items to be CLOSE to end game, when sum1 else who just does something once drops something really valuable...Where's the fairness in that? People that spam every day dungeons and get same stuff that's worth less...
I dont want to make every1 in the game overpowered, but at the same time we all must agree that once more ppl start getting end game then the fun starts...the real PVP starts, that's where skill matters...You can give us harder dungeons * will talk later * and we need to use brain skills and tactics, not gear...* Like ft2 which took a long time to be cracked *
Now about farming...I've seen people spend days and days, months, getting from 1 to 170 and dropping only crap in pf...and a few drop Mithril amp, and out of those MOST IS WRONG AMP? If i spent 5 months getting from 140 to 170 i should have at least 1 items to prove it...not just the exp...Ok dont wanna do mithril? Implement flippin sigmetal or osmium craft, or W/E you want!! BUT STOP THE FRIGGEN FCH DROP!!!! It is incredible that from Tyrant chest you can drop the same thing you can drop form lv 30 mobs!!!
HOW: You start raising drop rates or better items in general, you remove FCH drops from dungeons above EoD b1f, and let the items that are in between stita and mithril drop more often...Omg but then every1 will be imba? No, everyone will still work hard, but will be rewarded for your hard work, and after you worked hard 2 years you're end game and play WITH SKILL!!!


-Success Rates * e.g.:upgrading your items? *
WHY: Most of the people here will tell you keep persevering, thing is, I've seen1 friend manage to fail 300kk worth of UCMs for his tita item while my other friend can make his own items +7 in a few tries. Now I dont say that it should be A LOT MORE easier...but the success rates are crazy especially for making +7 * Ok I dont care for +8 and above really I'm talking about the normal upgrade rate *
It's not fair that after 1bil worth of UCHH my friend didn't manage to +7 his mithril suit...There's got to be a point that when you've failed to many times the next time you're SURE you're not gonna fail! Why? Cause luck factor in this game is WAY TO MESSED UP, you should have it spread amongst the population not amongst some players...
HOW: Make it so that upgrading doesn't become hell for some players and a walk in the park for others. After certain ammount of tries one should manage, or get something back. Up the rates, and also seriously how is it possible to fail 8 times in a row...and even sometimes fail 3 times in a row from +2 to +3? LoL?


-Wrong Amp Drops:
WHY:Since already dropping something good is hard, and then you figure out it's the wrong amp, you get more frustrated, what's the point?
The game has settled down now...we know the classes that have use of magic and those tht don't, those that can use both * mFs, sFs * and those that are hybrid * fb lol LoL *...But why put wrong amp after 2 years you work hard and end up dropping mithril gloves wi sword amp?
HOW: create parameters in the drop table, and eliminate the useless ones. You don't know which are useless ones because you don't play your own product? Ask the comunity!

-TG:
WHY:Ok so for about 2 years we've been playing this system and it's been changed to reward both sides...We now realise that there's a need for a bigger league tg, cause they now get over crowded and people can't enter nor relog to help others make the score.
Also We've been playing on the SAME FLIPPING ANNOYING MAP FOR TOO LONG! I don't belive Devs can't make 4 change by day/maps that we can play on...I love the tg system but I know I'm not the only one that gets bored by playing the same map over and over...i mean 1...C'mon?
HOW: Make x-number-of interchangable maps, that can change by day. Make a new TG section for lv 165-170 or something like that * shooting numbers here *...Duno from which level to which but if you don't know cause you don't play your own product Poll the Comunity!!! *Even more than once if ou want to go by exclusion *


-Dungeons/Bosses:
WHY: Appart from FT2, which was the last fronteer for Cabal Online, where you actually have to work co-ordinated with your entire team, and think of what you have to do, the rest of the dungeons * maybe apart from CA, FI and aos1* are USELESS. Same repetitive stuff over and over and over...And they're WAY to EASY! It doesn't require thinking or co op. Where's the fun in that? Ok eveyr once in a while you can pop up a soloable easy dungeon, or something like EoD b2f, but other than tht srsly? Don't you get tired?
About bosses, haha they're a laugh, drop rates are pathetic, if you can drop fch and uch from pluma then bah, and ofc these bosses don't require thinking or tactics.

HOW:Make more dungeons that are hard to go through unless you can use the brain, and even there you gotta be strong to do them * aint got gear? If you fix the rates like stated above with hard work you can achieve the gear *. Dunno how to make it more co op? More tactics? As the Comunity!
About Bosses, make harder bosses, like raid bosses that require an entire party, that change attacks depending on % of life, that make you go OMG when you see em. Even instance raid bosses that you can enter only once a day? Same you can do for dungeons...Many successful games used this gimick and it works!

-Support:
WHY: We've all seen tickets unanswered for months, left asied, merged with someone else tickets even * it happened to me lol *. We know that some Support Fields are more efficient and faster than others, but srsly? Ive seen sshots of people getting answered after 2 months Oo...We shouldn't be pming GMs on forums for this. And also, The answers should be more constructive and differ from case to case, not just copy/paste caus'e we're lazy...

HOW:Don't know how to fix this tbh, change the people working in 1 department untill you see it works 100% ? I don't rly know....Just make it work...

For Tl;dr > rates must be fixed, dungeons must be fixed, tg must be fixed, crafting must be fixed, drops must be fixed, support fixed aswell...If you wanna know Why and How read!

Listen to the comunity to our ideas and push for them to get through. We all know Cabal is going to die soon cause EST is concentrated on other projects, like Cabal II. At least let us die Happy. Make this game enjoyable for those who can't / don't want to transition to Cabal II. Let us have fun! And after almost 4 years, listen to some of these critics that have been repeating!!!

PS: I know there's english mistakes in this post I'll edit em when I'll wake up...

[triton21]

xxdvinexx i totally agree with your point, when you "waste" 10 hours a day on a game for months you would expect to be rewarded and make progress, but here percentages feel like left out and changed not in a global way, its like they are limited in certain random periods which spin around low numbers although we are shown like dunno 70% chance to succeed and 30% to fail.
Cabal is a great game, and before you could have progress with steady farming, now its turned to hell, cause contents of the game are mixed up and unsorted from the early days, we should know that for example after 500 runs of one dungeon we should gain at least one good drop, im not talking about perf crafts, just one that will excel above others by quality or rarity and not to struggle for a chance to get one more uch.
Drop rates can be affected by drop sets and i can confirm that they can work, but whats happening, minority on servers has them, cause they are expensive, especially +7 jewelry so many of them backdown cause they find it more worth to go for amp sets or dmg sets for pvp/pve which will save them the "harder" work. So the point is that rare are the person cause of this situation which can afford drop sets, and even more rare are ones who will actually use it in dungeons.
I noticed that maybe cabal is the only game on the market which has as a part of game drop sets, in many other games drop rates are fixed and easily editable by patches, but in cabal its neutral thing cause i have seen no more then 3-5 persons farming in drop set during 3 years of playtime, and all others were bots.

I still would have much to say and it could happen that i explained some of my thoughts in a bad way but as everybody says this game maybe needs a change, and even better, a balanced change.

[[GM]Betelgeuse]

WARNING: Extremely Long WALL OF TEXT, you asked for how and whys here you go! Nothing is a Flame here, all intended to be Constructive criticism.

Ok so here goes nothing for the 1000th time:

-Crafting: This system is falling apart we see it, events like these shouldn't break the crafting system if it were balanced.
HOW: How do we make it balanced and more useful?

We make critting perfect chance higher. Wait so basicly now you want everything easy? No not really, the thing is that to get 1 crit if you're a normal player and not cheating you need per average 30 attempts, more or less.

WHY: Cause if you make critting easier it pays off to actually craft, it balances out having to buy EXPENSIVE materials for many tries,
...
WITH WRONG AMP...i mean...srsly? wrnog amp??? will get to this later *.


-Drop rates/Quality of Drops:


HOW: You start raising drop rates or better items in general, you remove FCH drops from dungeons above EoD b1f, and let the items that are in between stita and mithril drop more often...


-Success Rates * e.g.:upgrading your items? *
WHY: Cause luck factor in this game is WAY TO MESSED UP, you should have it spread amongst the population not amongst some players...

HOW: Make it so that upgrading doesn't become hell for some players and a walk in the park for others. After certain ammount of tries one should manage, or get something back. Up the rates, and also seriously how is it possible to fail 8 times in a row...and even sometimes fail 3 times in a row from +2 to +3? LoL?


-Wrong Amp Drops:
WHY:Since already dropping something good is hard, and then you figure out it's the wrong amp, you get more frustrated, what's the point?
The game has settled down now...we know the classes that have use of magic and those tht don't, those that can use both * mFs, sFs * and those that are hybrid * fb lol LoL *...But why put wrong amp after 2 years you work hard and end up dropping mithril gloves wi sword amp?
HOW: create parameters in the drop table, and eliminate the useless ones. You don't know which are useless ones because you don't play your own product? Ask the comunity!


-Dungeons/Bosses:
WHY: Appart from FT2, which was the last fronteer for Cabal Online, where you actually have to work co-ordinated with your entire team, and think of what you have to do, the rest of the dungeons * maybe apart from CA, FI and aos1* are USELESS. Same repetitive stuff over and over and over...And they're WAY to EASY! It doesn't require thinking or co op. Where's the fun in that? Ok eveyr once in a while you can pop up a soloable easy dungeon, or something like EoD b2f, but other than tht srsly? Don't you get tired?
About bosses, haha they're a laugh, drop rates are pathetic, if you can drop fch and uch from pluma then bah, and ofc these bosses don't require thinking or tactics.

HOW:Make more dungeons that are hard to go through unless you can use the brain, and even there you gotta be strong to do them * aint got gear? If you fix the rates like stated above with hard work you can achieve the gear *. Dunno how to make it more co op? More tactics? As the Comunity!
About Bosses, make harder bosses, like raid bosses that require an entire party, that change attacks depending on % of life, that make you go OMG when you see em. Even instance raid bosses that you can enter only once a day? Same you can do for dungeons...Many successful games used this gimick and it works!

Yawn, the stuff I left was the few parts that may be worth discussing, your post was just a general moan and not the crafting system discussion I expected. Do you honestly think I can forward this as a craft system change suggestion? It was not even a decent moan, I’ve seen better.

I haven’t seen anything regarding changes to the actual crafting system except increase chance for best craft and to remove wrong amp crafts. Yeah that will help a bit but do you honestly believe this will make crafting wanted?

I am disappointed again.

There must be some people willing to take the challenge to analyze the system properly.
I want to read about crafting materials, where and how should we get them?
Is the current system working anywhere? Or is the supply of materials broken everywhere starting from PL?
I want to read about the different crafting results, what should be left what should be removed, what should be added?
I want to read about basic crafting formulas.
I want to read about prof. craft changes.
I want to read a discussion for or against account binded craft results.

I know there are people that can do this if they try a bit harder. I want to read some decent posts not this rubbish we see lately on forums.

[xxdvinexx]

I haven’t seen anything regarding changes to the actual crafting system except increase chance for best craft and to remove wrong amp crafts. Yeah that will help a bit but do you honestly believe this will make crafting wanted?

Yes Ofcourse it will make crafting wanted. Knowing that you don't waste your time and alz on something that you know you can achieve is what motivates you to craft. And also knowing that when you achieve something it won't be the wrong amp its even more rewarding.* And implement a system to take away wrong amp like stated in my above post to *
One of the big problems at the moment, is that to exp to a high level of crafting you have to put in way to many alz than what it's worth as outcome.
How can we balance this? Probably more people have different opinions, but I do know for a fact that these 2 changes would already help.

People get discouraged after they fail their proof too many times, also because making alz isn't as easy and finding mats to make higher level proof is hard.
You might say, "ok we don't want everyone to achieve a high level in crafting so we won't change the proofs this way it's more competitive, and only those who really persevere eventually will get it". Still problem is that it has a high toll even on those who really want to persevere.

We know that the lowest levels of crafting are basicly useless. In the past Episodes you could make a lot of money off of Skill Exp items, but now it's useless. And just as the game evolves changes, people get more items, etc... So should the crafting system.

Eliminate the bottom categories of crafting. Start crafting straight into Titanium. This way it motivates people to reach a higher level fast. And also, it helpes shred away from the market the small skill exp pieces.

more to come I want to answer this in more detail, but also want to make sense..

[D.A.N.T.E]

Yawn, the stuff I left was the few parts that may be worth discussing, your post was just a general moan and not the crafting system discussion I expected. Do you honestly think I can forward this as a craft system change suggestion? It was not even a decent moan, I’ve seen better.

I haven’t seen anything regarding changes to the actual crafting system except increase chance for best craft and to remove wrong amp crafts. Yeah that will help a bit but do you honestly believe this will make crafting wanted?

I am disappointed again.

There must be some people willing to take the challenge to analyze the system properly.
I want to read about crafting materials, where and how should we get them?
Is the current system working anywhere? Or is the supply of materials broken everywhere starting from PL?
I want to read about the different crafting results, what should be left what should be removed, what should be added?
I want to read about basic crafting formulas.
I want to read about prof. craft changes.
I want to read a discussion for or against account binded craft results.

I know there are people that can do this if they try a bit harder. I want to read some decent posts not this rubbish we see lately on forums.

But you sure are decent troll?

It's not our duty to remake crafting system,its ESTsofts, they make, we play, questions?

[xxdvinexx]

But you sure are decent troll?

It's not our duty to remake crafting system,its ESTsofts, they make, we play, questions?

I understand, evne though it was a bit hash still hey I'm a grown up i can handle it, what he's saying. He wants to see more detailed opinions on how to change it so that then they can be made into pretty little packets that can be sent to EST devs so that they can analyze and decide what to do...

@ Don: That's what i think aswell, the crafting system doesn't need too much of a BIG change, and those that you proposed are quite nice.

@GM: Please CHANGE THE TITLE to Game Features Changes, thanks!

[[GM]Betelgeuse]

But you sure are decent troll?

It's not our duty to remake crafting system,its ESTsofts, they make, we play, questions?

Trust me I haven't even started

Yes it is their duty to remake it, and they will, but last night many people attempted to convince me they have given good explanations on what should be changed and they were ignored. This is not true. Good suggestions may be implemented, and if you want to change the craft system now is the time. But it has to be really well explained.

[Creationeer]

I want to read about crafting materials, where and how should we get them?
Is the current system working anywhere? Or is the supply of materials broken everywhere starting from PL?
I want to read about the different crafting results, what should be left what should be removed, what should be added?
I want to read about basic crafting formulas.
I want to read about prof. craft changes.
I want to read a discussion for or against account binded craft results.

I know there are people that can do this if they try a bit harder. I want to read some decent posts not this rubbish we see lately on forums.

That one is easy. Since the Weakened dungeons got added, have you seen anyone EXPing in PL/FR after that? I think most people only do the story line quests, get items and great exp in the weakened dungeons and then start with map parts/RS and wow look, you're level 100+

The total flow from GD/DS/BI to PL to FR to UG to FGR is broken by the weakened dungeons. The only things that hold those maps together are the quests, which probably noone does anymore for the 500th time.

And what does that mean for crafting? Noone finds those materials anymore. Entry prices of Map Part/ Ruina Station went up triple of the old price. Most types of 1 slotted titanium gear also tripled in price. Every craft you make from citrine/aramid - aqua/shadowtitanium people break or npc, because you get all skill exp gear from quests etcetc.

As for the "usefull" crafts you can make on those lower grades, you need a 2 slotted titanium. How many weapons do actually drop a week each server? I bet not even one each type. Then the craft has to succeed, has to be a nice craft and even IF it's a perfect craft, it's worth practically nothing, because you can find it in the weakened dungeons for "free" anyway.

As for the 2slotted titanium armour parts. The only places you can find them on a "decent" rate, are the DT dungeons, which are bound to be deleted. And then? How will this proceed?

To get those materials and make it attractive as well for higher players that can't get those items(which they need in order to get a decent Critical Rate, let's be honest) this drop rate needs to be increased, not decreased(hell, even deleted completely?). Therefor the "farmsets" are totally unattractive and I can't remember 1 thing that boosted/stimulated the will to farm, except the 4 ring patch.

[mejingjard]

There must be some people willing to take the challenge to analyze the system properly.
I want to read about crafting materials, where and how should we get them?
Is the current system working anywhere? Or is the supply of materials broken everywhere starting from PL?
I want to read about the different crafting results, what should be left what should be removed, what should be added?
I want to read about basic crafting formulas.
I want to read about prof. craft changes.
I want to read a discussion for or against account binded craft results.

I have already mention my post in feedback section, but as you want this, I shall give my vision of the thing

Basic craft is not that bad, on this side, there is not so many problems. Easy to get FC, not so hard to get mats and raise it.

The problem comes from Professional craft, that have NO USE. I just repeat it in case of, NO USE. By this I mean that putting energy in Professional craft is WORTHLESS.
Let me explain: Exept for Amulets, no one need craft items.
1-Rings: who cares of crafted rings? Everyone aims for Ring of Luck and Critical Rings. So ring craft is usefull for: low adept craft, and luck craft, and ROF/ROS+10, which are totally unafordable for common players.
2-Weapons: As I said, passing Titanium is insanely hard. Slotted with crt rate is already a pain to get. Crafting the amped weapon is almost impossible as you get either the wrong amp or either you fail in 90% of the cases. Then you have to succeed in Proof crafting... Again, most players fail 90% of the time.
As Pherystin/Titanium is still "decent", with "amped" weapons for roughly 30kk (Jupiter prices), trying it is yet possible but highly frustrating.
But above... Shadowtit/Aqua 2 slot with rate is almost impossible to get. I bet that more than 99% of the players NEVER seen such an item!
So mainly, most of Prof. crafters will be stuck at Titanium/ShadowTit rank.
3-Armors: almost as hard to raise, but armor with 2 slots are a bit more common.
Still, it is a pain to pass Titanium again. Just lucky, they don't have ShadowTitanium to complete. But Perfect crafted osmium comme even often from drops... SO again, not worth the effort.
4-RedOsmium is... a joke. So much effort to craft UNSLOTTED items... Do you think it is logical? Do you think it can cheers players to craft? And succeeding in proof here is again almost impossible.

Basically, to sum up:
Profesional craft is probably the hardest one I have seen in any other MMO. Just because of such insanely rare item needed for proof. But that does not stop here!
By running not so much Frozen Tower B2F, you can easily get Osmium Perfect Crafted items.
More fun, more easier, more quick, well... Everyone with 2 neurons will choose to go in B2F instead of crafting.

Now to answer what you want to hear:
1- Most of mats are not hard to get (materials cores, or even basics mats, these are not rare and with decent prices, exept maybe for high grade disks).
Appart for those inexistant parts with critical rate in slot, there is no problem on this side for me.

My point: Give back Amp avaible from FCUpgrade, give catalyst for Crt Rate enchant, and even for 2d lvl FC upgrades, as they are ALL USELESS! (exept 15% alz drop for farmers) Do something about enchanting, as it is just used for HP/Crit Damage.

2-Craft results... The main problem with success rate. Apart from Perfect craft (wich are RARE! I never made a single perfect craft yet...), all craft results are weaker than anything you can get in dungeon. Best exemple are Gloves:
Who cares for 1, or even 2 slots in gloves? As the only bonuses we can put in slot are USELESS. (+2 attack... def rate...). A simple dropped part with amp is better than anything you will be able to craft as glove. And easier to get.
So, on one hand: hard to craft due to the weapon/armor needed at first material, then high failure chance and again, low low low low low chance of getting something valuable.
So, no use for crafting. Dungeons can give you the same for less effort.

My point:Remove all craft results below perfect grade, and add better bonuses as craft result. Also add slots to Red Osmium grade. (Who will ever sacrifice a 2slot RedOsm blade for attempting one which will have at max a lower bonus than filled slots?). Also, forgot about proof items, and add a quest (even hard one) that lay on effort and not luck, in order to reach higher lvl of crafting.
I would also say, Add SIGMetal as craftable. What is the point of having uninteresting stuff, harder to get than better ones?

3-As I said, for me, basic crafting is just fine. Maybe increase drop rate of some Formula Cards, but, overall, Basic Crafting is still OK.

4-Prof Crafting, I think I have already said a lot. The whole problem is that it needs too much effort for too less reward. Investing billions of alz to reach osmium grade, and see that anyone who can do dungeons will have better items than you can craft is just anormal. Exept for amulets that cannot be dropped, Rings, Weapon, Armors can be found easily in dungeon. So why crafting?
As I have already state on what should be changed, I wont repeat it.

5-Adding BETTER craft results but Character bound on equip could be a good solution. Just remove that absurd Character bound items, exept for UNIQUE drops (like lycanus weapons). It will allow players to trade and inetract, and economy to flow, without unbalance everything due to Bind on equip option.

And as a last word: Stop trying to equip all characters with Titanium. or with Osmium. Anyone will say it: wearing lvl 80 stuff when you are lvl 150+ is a pain for the moral.
Just add NEW sets of equipment. Keep having set every 10-15 lvls. Not uselless 99, 107 or 115, that are hard to find either!
I have some idea of crafting system but I will think a bit about it to not just write down rough ideas.

[xxdvinexx]

And as a last word: Stop trying to equip all characters with Titanium. or with Osmium. Anyone will say it: wearing lvl 80 stuff when you are lvl 150+ is a pain for the moral.
Just add NEW sets of equipment. Keep having set every 10-15 lvls. Not uselless 99, 107 or 115, that are hard to find either!

The sets are there, like mystic, sigmetal...Problem is they put them in but their droprates is too low...Hence why i wrote what i wrote on my post...

[pwnflakes]

My point: Give back Amp avaible from FCUpgrade, give catalyst for Crt Rate enchant, and even for 2d lvl FC upgrades, as they are ALL USELESS! (exept 15% alz drop for farmers) Do something about enchanting, as it is just used for HP/Crit Damage.

i beg for that since im playing that game bcuz i get tired of watching ******** cdi builds all over the way cuz its simply more easier to get it n useful with high critical rate which isnt a problem after all the changes what est did ( more rings slots merga-lame-bs n so on )
but they wont give back the fc update .. even if that will make the game way more interesting

[joed06a]

i beg for that since im playing that game bcuz i get tired of watching ******** cdi builds all over the way cuz its simply more easier to get it n useful with high critical rate which isnt a problem after all the changes what est did ( more rings slots merga-lame-bs n so on )
but they wont give back the fc update .. even if that will make the game way more interesting

True true true. No other builds rather than damage cdi/amp build. No def build, no tank build, n hp build, no evade build, no other kinds of build. I really am disappointed with how other(all) people exactly have the same build as mine.

Crafting problems here actually echoes to other problems cabal have. Only a few crafts are worth to make=other crafts dont have the market they need for them to be profitable.

[joed06a]

I actually like how the GM here plays as a devil's advocate. Challenging the player community actually brings out the collective ideas of the community,,

[Lej]

The problem comes from Professional craft, that have NO USE. I just repeat it in case of, NO USE. By this I mean that putting energy in Professional craft is WORTHLESS.

its not true :P

Let me explain: Exept for Amulets, no one need craft items.
1-Rings: who cares of crafted rings? Everyone aims for Ring of Luck and Critical Rings. So ring craft is usefull for: low adept craft, and luck craft, and ROF/ROS+10, which are totally unafordable for common players.

ever thought about collecting money for it?

2-Weapons: As I said, passing Titanium is insanely hard. Slotted with crt rate is already a pain to get. Crafting the amped weapon is almost impossible as you get either the wrong amp or either you fail in 90% of the cases. Then you have to succeed in Proof crafting... Again, most players fail 90% of the time.
As Pherystin/Titanium is still "decent", with "amped" weapons for roughly 30kk (Jupiter prices), trying it is yet possible but highly frustrating.
But above... Shadowtit/Aqua 2 slot with rate is almost impossible to get. I bet that more than 99% of the players NEVER seen such an item!
So mainly, most of Prof. crafters will be stuck at Titanium/ShadowTit rank.
3-Armors: almost as hard to raise, but armor with 2 slots are a bit more common.
Still, it is a pain to pass Titanium again. Just lucky, they don't have ShadowTitanium to complete. But Perfect crafted osmium comme even often from drops... SO again, not worth the effort.
4-RedOsmium is... a joke. So much effort to craft UNSLOTTED items... Do you think it is logical? Do you think it can cheers players to craft? And succeeding in proof here is again almost impossible.

still there are ppl who can craft topaz orb, redosm dk, mithril armor or all kind. we never said that crafting is a 1-man's job. its not! we just say if a lot of ppl working on to achieve something, level a craft higher and higher, wed like to make some profit out of it.

Basically, to sum up:
Profesional craft is probably the hardest one I have seen in any other MMO. Just because of such insanely rare item needed for proof. But that does not stop here!
By running not so much Frozen Tower B2F, you can easily get Osmium Perfect Crafted items.
More fun, more easier, more quick, well... Everyone with 2 neurons will choose to go in B2F instead of crafting.

yepp, thats true, this is what we would like to change... to make perfect craft crafted by players dense (tho acc bound), but still its a choice to make: do i want to pay 600m for a gloves which i _may_ be able to sell if i get bored of my class or pay 100-150m but its gonna be just urs (also unable to scammed)

Now to answer what you want to hear:
1- Most of mats are not hard to get (materials cores, or even basics mats, these are not rare and with decent prices, exept maybe for high grade disks).
Appart for those inexistant parts with critical rate in slot, there is no problem on this side for me.

My point: Give back Amp avaible from FCUpgrade, give catalyst for Crt Rate enchant, and even for 2d lvl FC upgrades, as they are ALL USELESS! (exept 15% alz drop for farmers) Do something about enchanting, as it is just used for HP/Crit Damage.

PLS dont, making some 2nd lvl fc upgrades available will make a 8% crit rate craft helm with crit rate in first slot worth from 1.4billion alz to... 20m...
getting crit rate or max crit rate is freaking RARE, thats why they worth that much and are most wanted. ur plan is to give it to everybody, that wont make feel any1 special

2-Craft results... The main problem with success rate. Apart from Perfect craft (wich are RARE! I never made a single perfect craft yet...), all craft results are weaker than anything you can get in dungeon. Best exemple are Gloves:
Who cares for 1, or even 2 slots in gloves? As the only bonuses we can put in slot are USELESS. (+2 attack... def rate...). A simple dropped part with amp is better than anything you will be able to craft as glove. And easier to get.
So, on one hand: hard to craft due to the weapon/armor needed at first material, then high failure chance and again, low low low low low chance of getting something valuable.
So, no use for crafting. Dungeons can give you the same for less effort.

My point:Remove all craft results below perfect grade, and add better bonuses as craft result. Also add slots to Red Osmium grade. (Who will ever sacrifice a 2slot RedOsm blade for attempting one which will have at max a lower bonus than filled slots?). Also, forgot about proof items, and add a quest (even hard one) that lay on effort and not luck, in order to reach higher lvl of crafting.
I would also say, Add SIGMetal as craftable. What is the point of having uninteresting stuff, harder to get than better ones?

i totally disagree with u there. despite the fact that the "common" players are just fine with a gloves that has amp in its slot, pro players go for deathblow gloves or making max crit rate/hp steal in the amped gloves slot.
no matter how hard u imagine that dungeon, it cannot that hard, that ppl arent able to finish. i suggest u to check on kyos idea of proof
i disagree with u again... it may seem that there are more mithril in the game than sigmetal, its just bcoz ppl level a bit in big spot or pontus ferrum and thats all. once fi/aos1/aos2 will be spammed same as eod1/eod2, ull see a LOT more sigmetal
sadly with the introducing of weakened dungeons the farming effort dropped dramatically. it does have its meaning, if u start this game u want to see some action and not start ur career with already farming at lvl 45...
making such "cool" gear drop in weakened dungeons was intended too, but EST never thought that players could be so low-needs and will be satisfied with crappy titanium... HELLO, THERE IS MITHRIL IN THIS GAME TOO!!!!

[kirmaster]

Y
There must be some people willing to take the challenge to analyze the system properly.
1I want to read about crafting materials, where and how should we get them?
2Is the current system working anywhere? Or is the supply of materials broken everywhere starting from PL?
3I want to read about the different crafting results, what should be left what should be removed, what should be added?
4I want to read about basic crafting formulas.

As i craft basic, these are the ones i can talk about.
1:crafting materials should be accesible to you where you level and in dungeons, imo, since otherwise it means going far out of your way or spending a lot of money to obtain a few materials (in some cases), neither of which is fun. Possibly specific dungeons where reward is either choosable as crafting materials or craft mats drop at a reasonable amount (like half alz rate for a 150+dungeon with the mats still needed for amp/evasion potions (like stems, feathers etc) so you at least dont need to buy loads of mats.
2. after RS and after FR, craft material drop amounts lower drastically in both usefulness and drop total. Form cards are especially effected by this, meaning, those not proof and uberuseful(SEL for example) but the normal ones nearly noone has.
3 Maybe options to either save materials and have less perf craft rate (for xp), more perf craft rate but less sucess/more mats, crafting the prerequisites when you click the highlvl recipe with the lowlvl mats in inventory, the like options. Some are gunning for perf crafts, some are gunning for xp.
ALSO, CRAFT-ALL BUTTON PLEASE. Getting RSI from clicking 200+times after each other isnt something that can be helped by adding one simple button.
4 basic forms: some are good, but the few-seen and most of the things that make lv2 are just too obscure and too low in effect to be useful. glory and alz potions also suffer from this. Drop rate for the more obscure but not so powerful should be higher. Maybe also in dungeons at a reasonable rate(not too high to be annoying, but high enough to get them like in ft)?

roughly about it. Craft-all button should've been in since the crafting system was made, which i find a shame.

[DustBit3]

ALSO, CRAFT-ALL BUTTON PLEASE. Getting RSI from clicking 200+times after each other isnt something that can be helped by adding one simple button.

roughly about it. Craft-all button should've been in since the crafting system was made, which i find a shame.

Eh, you can type in the number of crafts you want to do.

Anyway, first I want to talk about the parts of Basic Craft that matter most to me, so here I go.

Lv7

Something that should be done to this is to make it possible to craft Excellent amp/evasion potions, because right now it's impossible to make them. If it is possible then the rates to get these are ridiculous. You used to be able to get them in TG, (which was a sweet stab in the back for us basic crafters) but now they're impossible to come by.

Force Core (Medium), why is this here? It's worth nothing, it fails a lot. Increase the succeed rate, or lower the amount of FCLs needed from 3, to 1. Then you might have some use for this.

Slot Extender (Low), this is probably the only profitable card in the entire list, and then some. Compared to every other card, this card means business. I'd even go as far as to say that this card is too great, in contrast to the other cards. The reason for this is the addition of Forgotten Temple with the Age of Man update, and the Mithril Cube crafting in it. Before this, they weren't worth this much by far.

Lv8

All these crafts are pointless. Crafting a Plasma Coating Kit, for instance. Good fun. Succeed rate on this is very low, and the materials required for it cost as much, if not more, than what the outcome's worth. (if it succeeds, which it likely won't) For this craft, lower the Plasma Circuit requirement to 1, and Plasma Plug to about 3, and increase the succeedrate. Then it's a decent craft.

Another craft at this Level: Slot Extender (Medium). You require 5 Slot Extenders (Low), plus other materials, which, again, makes the cost higher than what the outcome's worth. (again, it'll fail most likely) For this craft, lower the amount of Slot Extenders (Low) needed, from 5, to I guess 3 or less, AND increase the succeed rate.

Force Core (High) and Upgrade Core (High), why are they in here? They fail a lot, and again, the crafting materials required for these are worth WAY more then what the outcome's worth, PLUS they fail A LOT! Increase the succeedrate, and lower the materials required. (atleast change the Plasma Circuit amount required to 1, instead of 5..) And in the case of the Upgrade Core, even a 1/2/3 Upgrade Core (Medium) requirement would keep it fair. (making Plasma Circuits is costly)

A new card that was added not to long ago, Fury Potion Lv3: a great card for the people that were Lv8 in Basic Crafting, a stab in the back for Lv9s. It has a very high succeedrate compared to the other Lv8 cards, which is good, but the materials required per craft are still too high, and Shining Yellow Powder (SYP) is still too rare. (which will be changed soon, I guess)
All these pros of this card are quite nicely killed by the Bamboo shoots from a past event, which makes this card pretty much useless right now. It's mostly used to reach Lv9, but is it profitable? Hell no.

This brings me to probably the mecca of absolute design failure: Glory Potions Lv3. 30 Shining Yellow Powders (SYPs)? Seriously? 10 Lv2 Glory Potions? (Glory Lv1s take 10 SYPs each craft, Lv2 takes 1 SYP, plus 10 Lv1 potions. (used to be 10 SYPs as well, I think)
All in all you're EASILY looking at well over 100 SYPs, if you're lucky. Sweet! Getting 1~4k honour has never been easier! And it doesn't even require honour points to craft them!! ;D
Pro tip: do the same here as was done, and will be done to Fury Potion crafts.


Lv9

Another thing, Lv9 crafts. The cards drop, no doubt. They're in game, yep. But the droprate of them is way too low. But, let's say they drop every (few) days/week. The demand, of course, will be very high now because of the new Fury Lv3 card. Then what? Craft a Slot Extender High, with some Familar Minerals. Good luck gathering them. Have fun failing it.

Again, this needs a change. The cards need a way higher droprate than the crazy .00007% droprate of them now. (and only from 1 specific boss) Or .0000035% from a specific chest. Which, in contrast of a .1% chance of an RW3 from this boss, makes it unbelievably rare. Adding to that are the rarity of the required materials and you got a lot of people reaching Lv9, just for the heck of reaching it. Because after all, who can afford to get that one card?

General

I noticed there were a lot of blank spaces in most of the Craft Levels. If ESTsoft has any other formula cards they don't want to add, or want to add, but not at this time, they should get rid of these blanks, or just add the cards. The blank spaces for cards that don't exist, confuse a lot of players. Besides this, they're also a pain to look at.

Lv5

Another thing that a lot of you must already know, Formula Card No.60, where is it? This is a card that should be in game, because the Lv2 Good Luck Potion card is (and is very common at that), but the Lv1 one is not. Makes no sense.

Extract potions, 50 Shining Teeth for 1 STR Extract Potion craft. I've never even bothered with that. Make it 5, and things might be a little more interesting. And again, MANY blank spaces here. I don't need to see what ESTsoft might fill up, 4 years from now. Get rid of them.

Lv6

Same thing here for the potions, as is the case on Lvl7. I think it's not possible to craft any Excellent Lv3 potions. This has to be become possible. Especially with all the event potions floating around all the time. Basic Crafters should be able to craft Excellent ones at a decent rate, to compete.

Slot Extender (High), a nice way to eat alz out of the game. An even better way to demotivate Basic Crafters. Sell a temporary craft card at the PL NPC for 50mil and make the Force Booster 50mil, and delete this sad excuse of a formula card from the list!

That's pretty much it from me.

[Lej]

ALSO, CRAFT-ALL BUTTON PLEASE. Getting RSI from clicking 200+times after each other isnt something that can be helped by adding one simple button.

well, there is no craft all button, but u can add the exact number ud like to craft... just click there with the mouse (not the arrows, but the space b4 the " / " )

[Arhangel]

There must be some people willing to take the challenge to analyze the system properly.
I want to read about crafting materials, where and how should we get them?
Is the current system working anywhere? Or is the supply of materials broken everywhere starting from PL?
I want to read about the different crafting results, what should be left what should be removed, what should be added?
I want to read about basic crafting formulas.
I want to read about prof. craft changes.
I want to read a discussion for or against account binded craft results.

I know there are people that can do this if they try a bit harder. I want to read some decent posts not this rubbish we see lately on forums.

About basic craft system:

1. Craft at lvl 9 is impossible due to non existence of cards (or better said in more than 3 years only one dropped in cabal eu - fc no. 123 on Mercury). Even if by some crazy luck you get one, crafting anything is pretty much no go, since materials are close to non existent too.
2. Craft on lvl 8 is pretty much ridiculous due to mat requirements. PCK formula has insane amount of mats and craft sucess is LOW, same goes for glory pot lvl 3 or SEM, and i dont even want to bothertalking about crafting uch and fch (you need around 5 mil mats worth on mercury to get craft that is worth 500k at best). Either greatly reduce materials needed for craft or make possible to get more crafts per try. (I doubt that anything can be helped for SEM craft, thanks to Choas box extender that is main and huge source of SEM).
3. Where is formula card no. 60 (goodluck potion lvl 1)? I dont think it even exists in cabal eu.
4. make crafting results instant instead waiting 5-6 seconds for EACH craft. It might pass on prof. craft but at basic its absurd. To craft 5-6 stacks of amp or evasion pots you need 30 minutes, which is ridiculous.

For professional craft imo there is nothing that can really help to rectify situation at this point in game. There is one fundamental problem in cabal concept that lead to this point: THERE IS NO REAL ITEM SINK that can remove valuable items from game. After 3 years of game there is quite a big ammount of excellent items accumulated in game, and those are here to stay. On top of that drop rates of excellent items are way bigger than craft success. And intruduction of permanet perfect craft from weakened dungeons just made things worse. If you make craft results account binding it could help only a bit, but damage is already done.

There is a lot of other things there about entire crafting system, but this is the first that came on my mind atm.

[Lord_ZerO]

...
I want to read about basic crafting formulas.
...

for me the only real change in basic craft is to reduce the amount of materials used.
buy / drop is long and boring for all (I think).

Regards.

[lucssj]

What you need, is to be as objective as you can, in your post. You need to understand that, because a personal view of the situation will not even reach ESTsoft.

[xxdvinexx]

What you need, is to be as objective as you can, in your post. You need to understand that, because a personal view of the situation will not even reach ESTsoft.

I see your point but I know that this is a more than common view on many of the points I've stated above with the cabal comunity. Ofcourse ok I layed out the problems in big lines, now lets write down how to fix em in particular, ok that suits me! It wasn't ment to come out as a rant. Just wanted to summarize the weaknesses that could be changed. The hows were a little poor, but then again I did write this at 3 am to 5 am my time...

[dOnBlaDiVich]

In my opinion the craft system dont need many changes to be good again.

First of all remove the wrong amp crafts from mystic/mithril cause this is really a pain to see how many of them u get where u could get good ones
Than maybe a change in a better way of crafting "more" stuff. What about craftin items which have only one slot? For example Osmium DB Blades with ONE SLOT! So you can choose which u wanna craft ( Non Slot / 1 Slot / 2 Slot ). Same goes for Mystic also and even for Mith in my opinion wouldn´t be bad at all.
About collecting mats... I thought about an idea that when u have for example 10 disc from lvl 3 you can exchange em to 1 disc lvl 4 same kind.. Same goes for shapes also for sure For that we would need an item or NPC, i am not sure how, but in an old game there was a horadric cube
Nah honestly i think there will be an easy way to implement this.

Thats all firstly

cheers